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Posted at June 21, 2005, 8:40 pm: I thought this up about a year ago (before I knew about Bonus Whoring); and have been milling it over more and more recently. Take a look at my modified version and I'd appreciate any comments. I will qualify this by saying some of these figures depend on where you live, and how big of a family you support. For me, I am single, and only used myself as an example. And I will base the calculations on 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, 40 weeks a year. This allows for 2 weeks vacation, sick days, and an average of 9 weeks of bad and really good runs that cancel each other out of the 52 week year. Again this assumes one can recognize when they are running bad, and can minimize their losses Playing Poker for a living: The Basic Math You Need to Consider A. How much money do you need to live on? 1. $30,000 = $750/week (Again 40 positive weeks); $150/day, $18.75/Hour a. Inside the numbers: 1.) If you play only ring games: (This assumes no profits from bonus) a.) You would have to make 1 big bet an hour profit at a 10/20 game to meet/exceed slightly hourly expectation b.) You would have to make 2 big bets an hour profit at a 5/10 game to meet/exceed slightly hourly expectation c.) You would have to make 2.5 big bets an hour profit at a 4/8 game to meet/exceed slightly hourly expectation --You get the picture as you move to the lower limits --Bonus Whoring adds positive expectation to playing at lower limits, the question of how much I believe depends on the whore's skill --This formula does not take into account multi-tabling because if you do, you still need to make an average amount of profit --You could also aim for daily totals (this I think would work especially well for people who excel at NL & PL ring games) 2.) If you play only 10 handed Sit and Go's, which take about an hour: a.) You would have to Win every $5+1 SNG (assuming 10 handed) to make a $19 profit and meet hourly requirements b.) You would have to win or place 2nd in every $10+1 SNG to make a profit of $39 or $19 and meet/exceed hourly requirements (Footnote: The potential of winning more than twice the hourly rate needed allows you some leeway playing these versus the lower buy-in SNGs) c.) You would have to win or place 2nd in every $15+1.50 to make a profit of $58 or $28 and exceed hourly requirements (Footnote: The profit potential of these look to be the most appealing for the buy-in if you have a limited bankroll. If you only take 3rd, that still gives you a profit of $13. Also, the 2nd place profit of $28 is nearly double the buy-in and 1st place profit of $58 is more than 3 times the buy in. This would allow you to not cash in a few more overall and still meet hourly requirement.) (This option appears to be the most balanced for an average to above average SNG player with a bankroll of less than $400-500. One should not see too much negative fluctuation at this buy-in) d.) You would have to win or place 2nd in every $20+2 to make a profit of $78 or $38 and exceed hourly requirement (Footnote: The risk is higher, but so is the reward with these. 3rd place gives you a profit of $18, almost another buy-in. Also, the 2nd place profit of $38 is more than double your hourly expectation, and nearly double the buy-in for this level of SNG. Of course 1st place profit of $78 is more than 3 times the buy-in for this level of SNG, and more than 4 times your hourly expectation. The down side is that the competition skill level becomes increasingly more difficult at this level. So cashing consistently becomes more difficult as well. This level of SNG buy-in becomes a key point where bankroll management plays a more important role, especially if you go on a losing streak.) e.) You would have to cash in every $30+3 to make a profit of $117, $57, or $27 to exceed your hourly requirement. (Footnote: After reviewing my statistics and talking with some other players who play for money for a living, I?ve found the risk has jumped to a new point at this level (One I didn?t realize before, but now I see clearly). The benefits are this is the first level (unless there are 10 handed $25 SNGs that I don?t know about) you can make your hourly requirement by cashing in 3rd. Also, for every 10 of these you play, you only need to win $520 ($330 buy-ins + $190 for ten hours work) to make this meet your hourly expectation. Also, if you go by a daily target of $150, you can accomplish this with 2 or 3 cashes. The negatives: from personal experience the fluctuations at this level hurt more than you think. Also, the competition is tougher at this buy-in level. I am re-evaluating my personal bankroll standards for playing consistently at this buy-in level. The 5% standard (or 20x the buy-in, $660) may not be enough for me here. I am thinking that $800-900 may be better here and dropping back down to $20+2 when falling below $700 Bankroll.) --The math becomes more obvious as you move up in SNG Buy-in, as does the competition level, hence risk equals reward. I would now qualify that by saying SMART risk equals reward. 3.) If you play only Multi-table tournaments, you must have the bankroll and cash reserves to withstand long periods of no cashes and small cashes that do not meet your hourly rate. One major cash in a multi-tourney can equal an entire month?s (or more) work, and that is the appeal of these. Luck and skill play an integral role in your outcome. b. Other amounts to consider: 1.) $35,000 a year = $875/week, $175/day, $22/hour 2.) $40,000 a year = $1,000/week, $200/day, $25/hour 3.) $45,000 a year = $1,125/week, $225/day, $28.15/hour 4.) $50,000 a year = $1,250/week, $250/day, $31.25/hour You must also ask yourself more questions: 1. If I hit a prolonged bad run, do I have enough stashed away (not poker bankroll related) to support my family and pay the bills? 2. What is my realistic expectation of profit (a.k.a. Return on Investment R.O.I.)? 3. Is the risk worth the possible reward? 4. And if I don't cash, will I be in bankroll trouble (or worse, outside cash trouble)? 5. Do I love playing poker enough to where I don?t mind it becoming a job to play a game? 6. Will my significant other(s) support my decision? 7. Do I have the psychological toughness to withstand a prolonged bad run? Original of the message was taken from http://www.bonuswhores.com/phpBB2/ Replies:good post enjoyed reading it as I'm taking the leap starting july 7th,...No offense but the original post is not realistic AT ALL. Plus, ignoring multitabling makes the whole thing nonsensical (sorry, ... -+TWO hands? You must get AA or KK more than I do. u obviously put a lot of thought into this post, but wow. -+I do over $10k per month and close to 2/3 of that is from poker the re... -+If elementary school teachers made 38k here Id probably be doing it. -+I've been pro for almost a year now. TWO hands? You must get AA or KK more than I do. this is ridiculous. -+It's a little different out here. Shit, I wish I could live on only 100k per year. It's a little different out here. It's a little different out here. I do over $10k per month and close to 2/3 of that is from poker the re... It depends on where you live and what you do. -+Hallelujah, brother. 100k/year is necessary if you have a family? Damn, daneq, where the h... family of five in Dallas, but i guess i spend it all, but i lived of 5... -+Now here is a newbie that I like. -+and Dallas is cheap - compared to a lot of areas what part are yo... Just to weigh in on the $100k/year thing. -+Since there aren't any strip clubs I might be able to live for a lot l... 50k for a college student?!? This must include tuition, books, etc. To anyone who needs $100k or even $40k in annual income to get by: Whe... -+It's funny you say that, my biggest fear when I went to the first Vega... -+Ever try to buy a house near a large city on the east or west coast? ... -+-+No doubt. Yeah, the Vegas stories surprised me a bit, too. Dont' believe the lies, money DOES grow on trees. -+I've got two of them planted in my backyard. No doubt. Or have spouses Wow, I get caught up at work for a few days and look at the response ... WOW? Just wow. -+I prefer the new-fangled self-checkout lines. I prefer the new-fangled self-checkout lines. 40k a year is a lot to me. One suggestion bud, move. One suggestion bud, move. I'm looking forward to Ed Miller's next article in the 2+2 magazine. One suggestion bud, move. One suggestion bud, move. -+Depends on the location/cardroom/casino. One suggestion bud, move. One suggestion bud, move. One suggestion bud, move. Jek and I were playing 15/30 at Wynn and this idiot at the table tippe... there was a guy at my 3/6 game who was rather strange. Hackmage- If you've already picked your major, it's probably too lat... -+Actually a friend of mine was telling me maybe I should look into chem... well, I'ved played low limit (. Hackmage, WTF do you live?? You could earn more at fast food I think. I think the best thing about playing poker for a living is that you ca... |