Topic: Why does failure occur or the HIT Jedi ain't gonna like this

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Posted at January 27, 2016, 1:04 pm:

http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/39/2/120

Original of the message was taken from http://forum.bodybuilding.com/

Replies:

Ouch.

Well if you feel like being helpful I'm searching for a peice that sho...

3 excelent links D

I've seen that before.

http://www.

No worries on that happening from a slow movement speed though, the sp...

Note this statement in the study referenced, " Neurophysiologists...

Ok kids.

A couple of things to clarify the above: Regarding Hennemans "...

All your muscle fibers are recruited, but they might be inactive or of...

If they're inactive they have'nt been recruited.

The term was wrong on my behalf.

Of course.

O.

Some are as low as 40% or so (smaller, more endurance oriented muscles...

They're mostly slow twitch.

Hey guys (Hey again Kc! thanks, I ditto that back to ya ) Sounds li...

I'm waiting for a post from WayneLucky that will set the record straig...

Ahh poor Wayne, don't be too hard on him, he's a nice guy.

Here's more fun.

That's funny.

It's like this actually, (I can refer to many references, texts, etc i...

I totally see where your coming from, many have had that same experien...

Just for reference, here is a great primer for anyone interested in th...

The "all or nothing principle" which is often misquoted to t...

We agree on something, lets throw a party.

You missed my "above threshold" qualifier on that example.

Fast controled rep speeds are far better than slow, we are haveing a d...

Here is what I am talking about, from Hennemann http://jn.

You are changing HIT then.

Going to failure is not required to recruit all fibers, and I never sa...

But wayne it is the central tenet of HIT.

If that the way it comes over to you ok, but it does not to me.

HIT is High "Intensity" Training, intensity being the main t...

Ronnie Coleman reps out weight with the pin at the bottom on the later...

I can also send you some stuff on motor unit behavior in fatigue if ya...

Yes, this is orderly recruitment.

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or not agreeing.

First on last off has ALWAYS been my understanding.

I think the only parts were dis-agreeing on are these, 1) Effort re...

I think you meant first on last off? Which is also in the study you po...

Yes.

empty post

Muscle wisdom

Recruitment abstract (still read those full texts I sent )

I would say the fiber bundle wants to work, but the fatigue prevents t...

This can happen, but it won't happen before the MU even hits full rate...

OT - thanks again for the studies on similar topic from before.

I understand everything here.

I have never seen any depictions of a bell curve, where did you see th...

Yer welcome! Did you ever get to really sit down and study em? Good st...

I spent a good amount of time on the Rank-Order Motor Unit one which p...

Perceived effort

It doesn't really take that much.

OK, here we go , from "Serious Strength Training" Bompa et a...

Hey cool, you've read the best one then! The others are great also, bu...

No one quits though, it's because the force of the whole muscle has dr...

The only thing I gotta say is, I've searched that a LOT, and found it'...

This is related to muscle wisdom, Article Changes in muscle contra...

Did you see my "Bompa et al" quote above? That's what I mea...

I agree that it does not immediately produce a loss of force.

I did see your bompa quote, I put the muscle wisdom info.

I'm going to carefully type out something before we get too far from t...

basics I know you know this, but just to make sure were on the same...

I bolded where I disagree.

Really enjoying this Nwlifter, could you post the onion skin for us al...

Yes and that is spot on and is verified.

By the time you hit failure, you are just now at the first moment of a...

Hey Wayne- Yes, when you hit failure, the activation is maximized ...

ANY set continued to ANY level of difficulty, and definitely to failur...

wayne, before you jump into to something and start taking things 1...

Yes see your point, a new person will make great gains training one se...

If you are going to quote, please do it correctly? You took part of w...

Sorry about the quoteing.

Seems like again your saying some people get far better results when t...

No one should blatently say one is superior over the other for all.

I or I think most people who use training to failure would not do a st...

Yep agreed, some can make great gains other not so good.

there goes the neighborhood.

The above is total nonsense; do you really think that there were that ...

You can't pick and choose wayne.

Okay, I read them.

Now its very late here 3.

wow this went way off! LOL I can't say what many find they like the...

OK, fair synopsis, I will see what more I can find in my folder direct...

Question for Defiant1 and Nwlifter: could it be that when the ATP stor...

ATP never drops below 50-75% though, the fiber loses too much force by...

I'm not sure about that.

Once again, thanks for the info.

Ah ok, that's probaby why then I bet!

Yes, I see exactly what your saying.

If this helps, I am not saying that in an 8-12 rep set the Higher thre...

on the other post that got deleted just moments ago, hit had the most ...

Been there too.

Additional context: I am not saying failure training "doesn't wor...

Wayne, if you mean "we" as HIT advocates, then you DO say fa...

I started this thread in an effort to get a scientific answer.

Oh man, sorry, did the question every get answered? The answer depe...

Finally.

Hi all pro, I don’t think Nwlifter explained at all why HIT s...

Sometimes I kinda do (I would call it more MHIT medium high intensity ...

Wayne, the point is, momentary effort (your "intensity") is ...

If I'm reading all of these links corectly then they seem to be saying...

Bump

just what we need, do what the russian druggies do.

Prove it.

menzter has nothing to do with why i do hit now.

The Soviets are right, as they do train to failure, see Zat, but what ...

No problem, I know it looks like I do by where I post a lot.

Sometimes wayne it seems you take the conclusion and fit the explanati...

http://www.

No time for the rest it’s late here.

Ok I think this explains why we go to failure; you hit failure, the ac...

I hope you are not implying I got my info from "bodybuilding"...

No that was meant to all reading.

Glad your back Nwlifter, no time to read the above, just going out, bu...

I hate to say, but I don't think your using accurate definitions, or u...

The only thing I can say about this is it would imply that endurance t...

Maybe that explains wayne why I understand the size principle where as...

But the info.

Nwlifter, please bear in mind that none of us said never go to failure...

I've read several college texts, and countless studies, no one thinks ...

And I agree, I myself do not think failure training is prudent.

I use the Soveit system alot and I've had good success with it.

Since I don't think your reading my posts and the references, let me ...

Speaking of summation, here is the summation of all my points, with th...

lol at anyone thinking failure is our goal when doing hit.

Very much liked this thread.

I think we won

More likely that people don't find arguing with you a very wise use of...

Which one of your two brain cells thought that ? The question was WHY ...

Example? As a side note, when I say "neural", I am not ...

I know, that's why I posted the references quoting that there is 'no n...

Did you get the e-mail I sent you? Just want to make sure.

I just found it and replied back, for some reason outlook didn't downl...

In a nutshell as I told you, the point I was trying to get across is t...

And agreed!

Not sure by that statement you understand how people training to failu...

Great thread.

Kinda both, For me, going to failiure always stalls my progress.

All I can say wayne is this.

As I always said you no not need to go to failure for results, must fo...

when did we say you had to go to failure to see results, but if you wa...

This was a great thread, Ok I think this explains why we go to fail...

wayne, that is the best example of selective hearing I have ever seen.

there are natural cures for herpes so herpes is no problem at all.

This was a great thread, Ok I think this explains why we go to fail...

Obviously not.

You all ready answered your own question.

I see that you and wayne have been having a discussion along with king...

AHHHhhhh.

You know better than that.

ahhh.

3 problems with it: 1) I can't afford that many AAS 2) I don't want ...

Troll http://forum.

It "excites the CNS", like Viagra for the synapses.

I'm sure there is no obvious correlation between HIT and and brain dam...

wow this is still going?

so what you're saying is.

This was a great thread, Ok I think this explains why we go to fai...

This is similar to getting hit in the head with a wrench at the gym.

No.

Yes.

wayne, I'm surprised you have stopped training to failure and have pub...

Could any of you actually put up some real evidence of this ??? As I h...

By the way all pro I apologised to you, ok ??? For the slow fast reps ...

If you'll notice Wayne has used both post length and now colors in eff...

You’re making quite a mockery of your self.

nice ownage wayne, great last few posts.

millisecond before failure all was maxed, not tw reps before.

Tell us the story again kingfish about how you "tossed Mentzers s...

And what magic happens here.

How do you comb your hair without a mirror?

Real quick since I keep getting quoted .

No, sorry, Wayne has decided that you advocate trining to failure.

what a waist of words.

The title of this thread is WHY does failure occur.

Why does failure occur? Just read the MT add, LOL.

I put that into the Wayne Dementia Translator at Babblefish and it com...

You said; but when you hit failure, the activation is maximized, that ...

I know a lot that enjoy 'to failure', it doesn't bother me.

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