Topic: Ultimate 5x5 Thread

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Posted at December 27, 2006, 10:20 am:

I decided to make this thread because of the excess amount of 5x5 questions that have been flooding the forum latley. First off, read this http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...nts_thread.htm
Read ALL of it. Don't skim it. Read it. It answers almost every question one could have about 5x5. If after that, and only after, you have a 5x5 question post it here so others can see the answers in one place instead of having a million 5x5 threads. I would also like this thread to be used for the posting of results for those who have used the program.

Hope this will work...

Original of the message was taken from http://forum.bodybuilding.com/

Replies:

Just so people are aware there is a 50+ page thread with 1000+ posts h...

Good idea pali012!

bump

i think im gonna start doing the intermediate program of that site.

nope, dont train to failure.

Microloading solutions: http://www.

For all of you who are to cheap to by the book " only the stonges...

Post whatever you want, none of it can possibly harm anyone more than ...

Another article about using chains for microloading is here: http:/...

im starting the linear version tomorrow, i cant f*ckin wait!!

This is by no means complete, think of it as the first installment.

yo man, a tip.

I was wondering.

I don't know why it pasted it that way and I can't figure out how to f...

You don't do them on the same day

Ok, Ill post this here Should I do Grip work on off days.

In the intermed.

I've used this program to train kids for softball, baseball and hockey...

dead lift and squat in the same work out ? I sure hope it's a typo!

Actually on light day you do Deadlift and squat in the same workout.

OK that makes sence

Even so, wouldn't that hinder glute ham developement.

yeah middle day is a light squat day and a heavy deadlift day.

For the SF version, if you sub deadlifts for powercleans, then on wedn...

Well i do Sunday, Tuesday, and thursday so maybe i can do some grip wo...

bump

You could do some grip work on friday.

Minor question, are the Dips suppose to be leaning forward or straight...

Do what you like, they aren't integral to the program and being used a...

I replaced dips with close grip bench because I cant do dips.

how do you even have enough energy to do more stuff on wednesday? afte...

Bump

Light day is easy Now Im even adding in a mile run on monday to mak...

im only two years older than you homey haha.

its probably the fact that this is what my workout looks like ...

Dont get down on yourself cus your not stacking 4 plates on the bar.

I was wondering, would it be bad or whatever to switch the Incline Ben...

Based on the intermediate program, I read that Incline can be swapped ...

Hi guys, Just a quick question for Rip or Madcow.

Andvaranaut- swapping MP for incline bench is fine.

It's certainly easier to get stronger if you increase bodyweight at th...

What about using DB over BB, some people think they use more stablizer...

would this program be good for someone that is planning to compete in ...

Reg Park (a pro bodybuilder a while back) would swear by 5x5 programs.

Building muscle is building muscle.

thanks for the info, i am sure it will be a big help.

The classic argument for BBs over DBs is that BBs allow the lifter to ...

I have well developed calves and quads, and wanted to put more effort ...

I know it's confusing but what you are doing is 2 5x5 workouts per wee...

Bump

Hmm.

since it is your first workout.

If you go all the way down you dont have to worry about if your going ...

What's up guys.

I dont think going light on the upperbody is going to increase the low...

monday.

puppetzz- close grip pushups are a good tricep builder.

I should also mention, i dont have dumbels.

Admittedly, I don't know the 5x5 theory completely, so I'm not sure if...

then just do standing curls, or even spider curls.

Hmm, got invited by All Pro.

What would be better for a intermediate trainer who uses steroids, sin...

Let me ask a question regarding how this is going to feel in 6 weeks.

I know, I was a good 25 pounds too heavy considering I just started th...

DOMS tends to be related to frequency rather than efficacy.

Thanks for the response Madcow, that makes sense.

I have a question.

I just add weight by feel.

how much do you usually add by?

5 usually, some times 10lbs

so once you are able to do the desired reps, in this case 5, for each ...

Make sure you can do it for all the sets like 5 5 5 not 5 5 4.

No, reread the explanation linked in the first post.

I believe you are talking more about DF (not really sure what your tal...

OK Slippy here we go.

what is DF and SF?

Second that, what the heck is DF & SF???

SF= single factor.

Ripstone's got it right

DF/Dual Factor isn't necessarily just a version of 5x5 (although the a...

Yup.

Thanks for clarifying even more Madcow.

OMG I understood the answer.

When I said increase weight by about 5 pounds I was talking about the ...

I increased everything (except situps, pullups, & hyperextensions)...

First off, I am doing the intermidiate version plus pullups (neutral) ...

For the assistance work just go in and do it.

yea that definetly makes more sense

regarding pullups, i do them using straight sets.

How effective is intensity cycleing http://www.

well 2.

It's a little conservative for my tastes.

Bill Starr says you can do chin ups on the lighter day but im confused...

read posts #87-90 on page 3.

I am really interested in attacking the 5x5 program on monday - my pro...

Try these sites.

Thanks Ripstone, it makes sense now

thanks man.

When would be the best time to throw in calf work? Fridays? ...

Few things.

delts are also heavily used in Bench pressing.

True, delts are used in benching, but only as a secondary muscle.

One thing to remember about this routine.

I have been working out for close to 4 years.

When i started, i was 14, my lifts were extremely low as in max bench-...

you may think that you are advanced.

I completley agree witht that statement^^

I will third(?) that^^^.

So, you're basically saying i would gain more from linear than from ad...

the workouts are pretty intense homey.

I started out doing full body routines but i was very young and didnt ...

If you ask a PLer what he would prefer to do from the following two op...

All right back to three steps forward, and one step back.

It'll be worth it in the long run.

sorry to just shove a question in here, but in an effort to not add to...

1 - dead for high pull on wednesday and rows for cleans on M/F.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^6 luckily, your questions can be easily answer...

Actually a lot of people have remarked that the best rear delt develop...

here's what my delts look like after months of literally ZERO isolatio...

get this thing back on the first page.

5x5 is the shit

can u tell me if what i'm doing is right? here's my first week: ht...

Madcow, just a quick question.

1.

Your not doing the right program.

dbcb314----YES, you said everything perfectly

Why do people insist on screwing with this program.

Tough to say on the internet, one man's flair is another's tucked.

Everything they said above I imagine is accurate.

heck, i may use this program but even i can ask a question right? ...

up

has 5 x 5 already been removed as flavor of the week?

i dont care if it has, lol.

Just do the cleans and don't worry about it.

thank you very much

Bill Starr's first 5x5 was power clean, bench press, and squat.

thanks guys.

i've only used db bench presses cuz i never have a spotter so it's jus...

yes, add weight to both.

I think your making this program MUCH more complicated than it needs t...

^^^ LOL! I dunno why, but that is funny as hell.

this will be my second year using the madcow/billstar 5x5 program.

I'm currently doing the SF 5x5 (on week 6 atm) and feel like my linear...

Just for clarification, you don't reset the weights to where they were...

You liked that one, huh? lol.

My understanding was that you want to ramp up and hit new PRs in week ...

I would have to HIGHLY recommend resetting the weights.

why not just play it by ear and see how things come along a few weeks ...

im just in the process of preparing myself for the SF 5x5 and i just h...

Just an educated guess, but maybe add them on Wednesday's.

Sorry to be one of those guys that tries to change everything, BUT.

Absolutely not.

Madcow, I really appreciate all of the 5X5 info you share here.

Actually, if you want insight into why I originally suggested and used...

me say back to de top

Don't recall if this has been covered elsewhere.

women: if a women has trained and trained hard (not pink dumbells a...

Sorry.

I have never actually read it, but from what i have heard about (which...

To add a little to what madcow said about not adding excercises and/or...

I have a question regarding time in between sets.

Sorry to bother you all.

yes you can substitute close grips for dips.

Short One- check out these interviews with Mark Ripptoe and Glen Penda...

The idea is to take what you need.

i appreciate the help guys.

bump

Great idea! Thx MC Wanted 2 say, I really appreciate the articles.

I could have sworn I'd seen the question pop up in this thread but sea...

There's a lot that factors in but for the most part it's total load/we...

Most dumbbell sets come like this: sets of 5 lbs, 10 lbs, 15 lbs, ect.

Thanks for the reply Madcow.

Madcow, I remember reading somewhere that a book was coming out on, I ...

Having read over this one too, he was telling me this before I posted ...

I created a thread the other day for before and after pics of people d...

Whick is better for replacing incline bench.

hey guys, i have been reading up on this program, i am very keen t...

pali012- Was the book you were thinking of Mark Ripptoe's "Starti...

since the 5x5 was designed for athletic types in the first place, why ...

Madcow2 and all pro I'm into my 2nd week of 5x5 for rookies.

Its a time issue as i do 3 field sessions and 2 weights sessions a wee...

When's the best time to start intermdiate 5x5 eg 1 year into weight ...

What kind of lifting programs/routines have you done in the past and h...

I would say military.

The big question is how much work you've done with the bench, deadlift...

Yes.

if you now your 5 rep max for instance 100 pounds then week 1 80 poun...

Thanks heaps for clarifying that all pro.

bumpity bump bump bump

I was wondering which level of program to use, intermediate or advance...

the program in post #8 is for beginner level football post #12 lists m...

all pro, i agree with you the three times a week vesion is way to much...

My bad.

RIP-Ive been lifting for 7 months i did fullbody, 3 day split and hit.

You could go with the begginner program(check out the ones all pro pos...

Ok then, which page and post is the begginer routine on, thanks

Beginner program is on Page 1 #8 in conjunction with page 7 post #188

Thanks, i live in geelong btw

no probs.

I have tweaked the 3 day 5 X 5 program to suit my sporting commitments...

hey guys, I'm on some of chad waterbury's routines atm.

just wondering, was there somewhere on one of the sites/pages that sai...

I have seen where some people put Chins in.

Easy, drop your dips and replace them with chins/pullups/pulldown on F...

Matta114- you can do cardio on days you dont lift, after lifting, or 6...

Ripstone- What type of cardio would u recommend?v And I'm prolly gu...

So when to do cardio.

you got too much I never do more than three core exercises for 5x5 per...

Thank allpro, i will incorporate you changes into the program

Hi guys, Here's a copy of the beginner xls that I put together based ...

nice job thank you

but i thought if ur doing a standard cut u should do cardio 6 days a w...

When doing Pendlay Rows, i can not reach the floor to deload the weigh...

After i finish beginner 5x5 can i move straight onto intermidiate 5x5 ...

There really arent any firm RULES, like you must do X days of cardio w...

Play it by ear and see how far the begginner program takes you.

I also have that problem, and I too bend my knees more.

Bump It

Yeah it's a real problem i like planning my routines out too much.

Hey RipStone, you know anybody who lost fat and gained strength from t...

yeah I think RipStone said that is possible to cut with this program.

Well I'm not sure how much fat I've lost doing this program, but when ...

hey you know how you were doing cardio on the days that you weren't li...

I hope Madcow doesnt mind, but he explained this topic very well in po...

This has probably been asked before, but I was wondering if the 5x5 In...

Why would you stop - ride the wave until it dies and fight like a dog ...

I do that sometimes.

It really depends on the intensity of the cardio, but I don't think do...

Hey.

allready explained, the squats are light on that day

hey how much should i be resting between each sets? the first 3-4 sets...

I just take what I need.

Rest 2-5mins inbetween sets.

is that true? i get pr's every week and i only rest 1 min.

I think your current PRs are pretty far south of your real PRs.

what u mean my pr's are far south! but with the squats i dunno i ...

I mean if you are taking 1 minute between sets, you have a lot more in...

thats interesting u say that cuz my pr's for squats are at least 10lbs...

Hold on - if your squat PR is going up 10lbs a week you don't screw wi...

I was under the impression that chins could just be added to wednesday...

hey thanks.

Maybe, maybe not.

bump

Question guys about the 5X5, as it exists on Madcow's site.

Well you setup too high initially and previous PRs aren't realistic wh...

what bicep exercise would guys recommend since we can only use one?

Pick the one you think you'll be happy with.

can I get big arms(even cut) with the limited amount of direct arm wor...

I don't think you have a good understanding of how this works.

Sorry man, I didnt mean to come out as a guy that all I am caring abou...

I just wanted to know some opinions on raising the weight by about 5lb...

It's cool, I'm just making it clear that your understanding of physiol...

The key is progressive loading, not just going in and doing something ...

What do you mean? Do you mean that the numbers for what I am lifting a...

Possibly but what I meant was the schedule.

Thanks for the input Madcow.

I was wondering something similar to VikingMan.

Hard work and prioritize as necessary.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! thats is like a exact description of me.

ahh this sucks.

Friday's test day is your Friday workout.

wait what? I'm confused on what you are saying.

madcow (or anyone for that matter), what are your thoughts on GPP work...

Sorry for my lack of knowledge regaurding this type of program.

5x5 for dummies: http://www.

He is suggesting that you dont do your normal 5x5 workout that you wer...

ahh but I was going to go for this PRs because this is actually my fir...

Madcow, Just a quick question for you.

I think your overthinking man.

I agree with the above poster.

Thanks pali012, that template is awesome.

Keep in mind that the big takeaway is to learn about training not so m...

I wouldn't try to work out 2 days in a row.

you dont see the point? For the test we only have to do bench, squat, ...

If you feel good enough after your test, then go for it ! Normally whe...

so me doing it on saturday wont overstress my CNS or anything

If they only test 3 exersises and the volume is low, like 3 sets each,...

Yea, Madcow I plan on customizing this program a little to fit my need...

empty post

testing is on bench press, squat, powerclean, and dips

Question regarding the percentage of weight increase.

Yeah, tweak the variables.

What's the difference between 5x5 programs that have working sets that...

The difference is workload.

A pyramid will produce more speed and power than straight weight sets,...

on the light day, why are military press and deadlifts only 4 sets of ...

The simplest way is to start out 25 pounds less than your 5 rep max an...

That is one option^^.

There are many ways to set it up.

I here ya man and you are right on.

Bam!

too the top^

Wow I just realized that this was on the site, how to set it up.

empty post

Wow.

The weights in the template are just an example, the formulas are reas...

Hey thanks for the quick reply.

Is it easier to lift a heavy weight with a thin barbell as opposed to ...

thick bars were always harder for me.

Hey, i got a question about upping weight.

Madcow, Should the squats on the 5x5 be ATG?

They should be full squats which will mean breaking parallel by a sign...

5x5 questions are coming back.

bump

Hey Guys, Can he 5x5 be run for long periods of time (I.

Everyone is different.

I have literally spent an hour or two looking through all 11 pages of ...

I really don't know, but I have not seen that substituted in all the p...

I agree^^^.

Thats the answer that I thought I was going to get.

Get a base first with this program, then worry about the fine points a...

I need some help with starting a 5X5.

then maybe the 5x5 isnt for you right now man.

I was neglecting the fact you can do dips on the third day.

You will learn to love flat bench once you add 20lbs to it with this p...

I seen in the template with the starting max of 225 at bench you shoul...

blah

You can't go by that.

bump

what is the tonnage thing in the spreadsheet?

I have actually never looked at the spread sheet, but it probably mean...

Yup, it was more for something else I was doing that will get added ev...

Thanks, i was wondering this myself as well.

What i am about to ask is VERY stupid, but can anyone please tell me w...

go to the first page of this thread and read, there are many links

your right it was a stupid question.

do you think it would be ok to alternate between military press and in...

Probabaly not because how would you keep track of the progression if y...

ok.

No that wasnt what you were asking.

empty post

what happens when u reach ur 5 rep max ahead of time? this is a repost...

So you screwed up the weights worked a week ahead (no biggy) and then ...

Damned if that doesn't sum everything up!

i know this isnt the point.

you can always fine tune thing later.

No, it doesn't but if it's a massive concern that's going to debilitat...

another question.

Not a good substitute, too much weight can be handled in the movement ...

damn.

I am starting week 3 of the 5 x 5 program, and I can tell you there ha...

how big are your arms?

If you are doing ATG squats your posterior chain is involved throught ...

Yea, I did the program for 6 weeks and didn't do hypers, but did all s...

You are overcomplicating everything.

The only time someone is going to have an issue with loss in arm size ...

well i'm doing just about parallel squats, cant perform ATG squats due...

dude no offense.

I'm going to go the chain route to get my inbetween weights, but I can...

I am currently doing the intermediate 5x5.

I see what you are saying.

Weigh it out and see (use an accurate scale like a beam or electronic)...

Just off the top of my head, i would think military as i assume you wo...

Subscribing.

Hey Guys, I wanted to ask a question about what to do after the 5x5...

i dont think you would lose strength, you just wouldnt gain strength a...

Not sure if this link has been posted.

I'm trying to figure the same thing, and also if someone did military ...

Overhand grip.

It's not a black and white issue or an on/off switch as to which progr...

I do standing Military press as it recruits more stabalizer muscles, n...

Is there a difference in how much the back is getting worked whether i...

You'd have to ask Glenn about his EMG test results.

So you are basically saying that overhand grips are better.

As far as the underhand and using the bi's - just common sensing it ou...

Side note: Thanks to Madcow, Ripstone and other contributers to th...

Yes, we do appreciate it greatly.

There is no actual warmup before you start the sets for the day?

That probably matters how much weight you are using.

Second that.

My first set tomorrow of bench is 91, I usually warm up with more then...

It depends on the weight you are using and if you require warmups to s...

Ok.

What week are you in that you have failed already? On friday, use t...

empty post

^^^^^^^

Hey guys, Quick question.

yes, thats fine.

Today was my first day (going Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday), seemed...

I am just going to make sure about something.

Your workout will get harder yo, don't worry.

HOLY CRAP, this is one of the best threads ever, I just started readin...

For those of you (most) that like to track your progress, you might fi...

It actually made me work, I wouldn't have gotten six out of it.

Why if you are looking for your 5RM did you do seven? That really does...

Haven't done barbell bench in probably over a year.

Haha yeah man, my gym actually has 1.

Absolutely, a spreadsheet is just formulas.

Hi.

Deadlifts off the floor are preferable.

well i had a thread going but i dont want to clutter the board up so i...

All of your questions are explicitly answered on madcows site.

All of these are answered on his site.

Thanks for all the help you've given me.

well just finished my first workout w/ 5x5.

Get stronger and you can use bigger increments

Too The Top

I am looking over this 5x5 program, it says if your new to lifting, wh...

Your shoulders will get plenty of work on this program just from the p...

How long would you reccommend me to stay on the single theory before s...

Stay on the single theory as long as you possibly can.

Stay on the SF version until all linear gains end.

For your first Q, what the other guys said is right on.

For the Triceps and Biceps – 3 sets of 8 each just use any excercise f...

Yes, any isolation exercise will do.

Thought so, thanks.

for barbell rows are you supposed keep you head looking forward or do ...

for the 5 x 5 programs Do you need to do deads ? Could i just do...

Instead of permanently avoiding things that can tax the area - leaving...

Madcow(or anyone else with a clue), I have seen various peo...

I have a question about the general theory, I read through a lot of in...

The run up, or easy part in the beginning, is the calm before the stor...

Actually, on Wednesday, you are only doing 12 sets.

Madcow: "The key is progressive loading, not just going in and do...

Which do you feel would be a better exercise for someone coming from a...

I will try to answer your questions just with the experience I've had ...

I think if I recommended 2x3 as a possibility to someone it was the Mo...

I think you should heal your back first and make sure you are up to ei...

All covered above.

the power clean http://www.

just finished my friday workout.

Yes, Friday's workout is the longest.

Yeah it is a little longer, but remember you are supposed to just rest...

It's the vanity work.

hey, how should the progression of the weights for isolation movements...

I just go by feel.

bump for the night

I was doing some squats and I think I used a little to much weight and...

STOP!!!!! DON"T TOUCH ANOTHER WEIGHT ! Get your butt to the docto...

1) Don't squat.

Any videos you know of that show excellent squat form.

No idea.

Hello all, I would just like to ask, I read as much as I could but...

Hi Tomaz25 the first few sets are there for 2 reasons, 1 warmup, 2 spe...

Ok, so just this last set alone is enough to gain strength? I guess th...

This is pretty widely used on this site.

Read above - it's not about a top set.

Madcow2 Thanks for helping, my second post was written before I got...

The linear program is not for any fixed time, you run it until it dies...

I am on Chad Waterbury's ABBH Program atm: http://www.

This is a tough call.

are front squats better for ur back then back squats? and its directly...

I don't think front squats are any better, and I don't want to guess a...

well since i cant goto a doctor.

Stretching is the best thing you can do.

For those worried about 'starting light', you'll see from the graphs b...

bump for the night.

I'm going to be starting my 3rd week of the 5x5 program.

How do you know they don't get enough work? Is it because they aren't...

Alright, thank you for the response.

Keep in mind the length of the program is not 9 weeks.

i just did out the first week mathematically for macows linear sf vers...

Alright well I just started the intermediate 5x5 today and its looking...

Just use the same percentage and increase weekly.

1) Ever see a 350lbs fat guy with stick legs? Pretty rare.

It isn't that I'm worried I'll look weird, its just that I want to do ...

Madcow or any other SF 5x5 vets, I am thinking about run #2 of SF 5...

Rip, you've been at this for a while and read quite a bit.

Hey guys.

Check this out for a little peace of mind about calves: http://www.

Thanks for the advice.

you know i have been reading this all day and i just wanted to kno if ...

Alright thanks I'll check that out.

sorry to bother u guys but i dont have windows excel=( does anyone hav...

see if this works.

ok, this time I'll attach the file, it'll be like magic

yesss i f*kin love u=)

whoah! *Runs to delete post*

I'm still confused about how much weight to increase every set???

Typical setup set 1 35% of target set 2 70% of target set 3 80% of ...

I have a few questions.

madcow i just came bak from the gym doing this for the first time but ...

ukbsktbll- 1.

I posted a reply yesterday about missing a few workouts.

I am not exactly sure what you are asking? You missed which workouts??

Excel viewer: http://www.

I don't know.

Sorry I didn't really make it clear what I missed.

bump

I am about to start my second attempt at 5x5.

Just a quick question - Does 5x5 produce as much size results as 3x8? ...

This 5x5 is a template, not just a rep/set scheme.

ok this sucks i got the stomach flu and couldnt workout on monday.

Do Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday.

I would just start week 2 over instead of start from week 2's light da...

I saw your proposed program in your other post.

Thanks those are some good ideas.

Madcow or other DF 5x5 vets, I'm currently finishing week 2 of the ...

Well, you picked a good week to miss at least.

Thanks for the response.

does it matter in what order you do the compound excrises on that day?...

I've wondered that myself.

On the second day of each week, are the 3 sets of sit ups just regular...

Yes the order of the exercises does matter.

In the book Starting Strength, Rippetoe recommends doing exercises in ...

How do you guys know when to increase the weights for the exercises do...

To madcow or others experienced with 5x5.

I increase 5-10lbs on the wednesday stuff depending on feel.

Yes, take a break or change things up a bit.

Ok, let me see if I understand you completely.

I'm concerned about your knee and aches - hence I'd rather not raise t...

First of all, I want to thank Madcow and Ripstone and any other 5x5 ve...

It might or it might not.

Madcow, Or anyone else.

Okay, so this is my first post! I have been an avid onlooker of this ...

What do you mean one week left with the 5x5? You should run it until r...

I had a lot of the same symptons man and to tell you the truth I basic...

few questions guys: I've hit a p;ateau on bench, but the rest of my...

When you reach the "end" you should take a week off, then re...

Looks like some people found out why you should'nt add anything to thi...

Just thought I would throw this out there.

so even if imseeing gains in sqauts and deads i should still take a we...

Who are you referring to?

I didn't say to take a week off.

The people who have made a long run of progression and are finding tha...

you should still take a week off.

If you were referring to me, and my post regarding fatigue, I didn't a...

I don't think I would take the week off for one lift, I would just res...

so just to make sure, Allpro you suggest that after i do week 9 i shou...

No no, I wasn't saying that.

If you are feeling beat up I would drop the weight and try to regroup.

so seeing as how my bench is stuck, my other lifts are still improving...

he asked about at the end of this cycle.

Thanks for the quick response.

Would u guys recommend ATG Squats in place of Normal Back Squats to pu...

Full or ATG squats are recommended not because of the back, but becaus...

I don't know if it is because of my bad back or lack of flexibility, b...

I see your point.

oooooh.

Who on this board would have the best advice for this

At the end of a cycle I deserve a week off !

Might be both or it might be to lower back and abdominal weakness.

Another stupid question.

Do you mean your lower back actually rounds or your ass kinda rotates ...

ofcourse you can replace deads with high pulls and BB rows with powerc...

1.

Yes my ass rotates down making it seem like my lower back rounded.

Go as deep as you can while maintaining good form.

When I do ATG squats, I get a wide stance and point my feet so that if...

Wapp!

I think I am going to give SF 5x5 a go.

1.

i noticed that in the original link for the SF 5x5, madcow never says ...

set it back so that you have to work up to your 5RM in like you did wh...

Hey guys, I would appreciate some advice on my Single Factor 5X5 pr...

Defintley do not opt for option 2 as adding more volume for back is a ...

OK, I'll think about going with option 1.

More lat involvement is the benifit.

With arms as long as mine, the weights just about touch the ground whe...

Can you find some 2x6 boards to stand on ?

Would it be all right for my to put some sets of chin-ups in Wednesday...

Yeah that sounds good.

I plan on cutting next month, will this program still work for me?

Yeah because you are going to want to your a routine with a high sets,...

No, it'll make you really fat.

yeah I could try that.

Your gym doesn't have a platform you could stand on? If you are touchi...

yes, as long as they dont interfer with the progression of the other c...

don't need a platform, just use 25s instead of 45s.

Oh, OK.

How long till a person is considered advanced enough to have to use th...

The idea of a linear program is not just one version or the version I ...

I just started the Bill Starr intermediate program on Monday.

If you are squatting and pulling from the floor (and I assume you are ...

Makes sense.

ok i'm near the end of the SF 5x5 cycle, and most of my lifts have sta...

You can reset the loads back 3-4 weeks.

About switching on and off between push press and incline bench press,...

so does that mean in 3-4weeks i hit my previous 5rm or a new pr?

previous 5 RM.

I am in my third week of the program and have not been deweighting for...

You need to practice those rows first.

I just wanted to stop back in here and thank RipStone and Madcow again...

Hey I was wondering if there is anyone here that does military/incline...

People have done it, generally no real impact positive or negative.

I'm in the middle of the third week and I would swear that my chest is...

i've many ppl say that itsnot good to do heavy deads every week b/c it...

where do you get that from? It shouldnt be a problem, especially since...

That is for the top dogs that worry about that.

what he said^^.

I remember reading an article on T-Nation and they said hypertrophy oc...

I have a better idea - why don't you ask the author of this article th...

very quick question: i failed on my 5th week for squats on Monday.

some quotes and questions, with responses inline, in bold

Hey I'm starting the 5x5 next week and Ive made a few adjustments to t...

I have read the information on 5x5 workout.

I think the this general layout is great Madcow - I did add a few sets...

hey everyone.

quick question about the use of pull ups i cant do 5X5 body weight pu...

yea, chins are fine.

I understand the core lift progression.

i really want to give bill starrs 5x5 a try, but it says intermediate ...

if you dont think you are intermmediate then try this routine.

yea that's tho other one i was looking at (rippetoe's), i would much r...

well I dont think there is a set thing that makes someone "interm...

When doing barbell row do I need to pull the bar until it touch my wai...

Oh great, I think I'll definetly go with option 1.

There is a fair amount of carryover from squats to deadlifts and bench...

The bar should touch your body around your navel.

when you stop progressing with ripptoe's program(ie; when you are not ...

in addition to that, Rippetoe's program isnt just a month or so, you S...

alright thanks guys.

I'll be working at home instead of the gym once we finish building the...

Anyone? Also out of Mark Rippetoe's program and this one, which do ...

When I asked Slippy about the back off set he called them burn sets.

i didnt say Rippetoe wants me to do a double triple.

You now I'm partial to Bill Starr's program the origanal one that is.

But I'm not doing Rippetoe's program.

But thats what I think, I'd be suprised at what I can do though.

to answer your question Ripptoe's program is for beginners.

Been on Rippletoes program almost one month now: Bench Press-126 to...

a couple of Q's I think i'm in a slightly overtrained state: i'm at...

Alright I would love to read all 51 pages (not really lol), but since ...

Advice in BOLD

I have been using the Starr/Madcow Intermediate 5x5 for 4 weeks now, a...

the assistance work isnt required.

Thank you for the quick response! Well, i'll just add some cardio a...

I think I've read elsewhere from Madcow and others that since the main...

As they said, back squat is preferable due to higher loads on the body...

i'll just bump my Q's cuz i think ppl missed em lol a couple of Q's...

I don't know anything about that program or what it entails.

westside for skinny bastards its basically a westistide template with ...

The devil is in the details, a layout with days, exercises, sets, reps...

k i read up on the advanced deload section.

I should probably have my brain checked for even suggesting it as I kn...

Okay, I have been reading through this thread until everything turned ...

Jeez madcow thanks for the in depth reply (and the little rant at the ...

If you've restarted for already 4 months, than i think the linear 5x5 ...

Sets/reps/exercises/days - not enough info.

You will always have to reset the weights, you can't start at your max...

today I was on the 4 th week of the intermediate program and I failed ...

Was there anything else you added/changed? Did you not put the weights...

yes I have check and I have done an error ,now what should I do?

maybe you should describe the extent of the error and how many lifts a...

I realize that it is a weekly progression, (I wasn't real clear in my ...

Yeah - sure.

When adding cardio on the two off days(i like to keep my weekends enti...

finally i was just skipped two week because I enter the wrong weight.

I know its not good to mess with this porgram but do to sporting commi...

maybe it isnt a good time for you to be doing this program

I have been lifting for about two years.

Are you positive that you cannot do the bench press, but can do the ro...

I think by following it to a "T" they mean dont change anyth...

I am doing the 5x5 intermediate program, and have a question about inc...

If I were to change incline barbell press to DB press, how should I ch...

How is this on the 4th page?!?! Anyway, I'm going to be in alittle ...

bump.

4th page.

hey all pro, can you help me with my situation? Its in post #647(like ...

Well I don't use inclines, they never did much for me.

your upper chest doesnt lack due to not doing incline bench? I didnt k...

One of the isolations I throw in from time to time is incline dumb bel...

so you think I should just do military press? Does military press real...

That's the way I would go.

*still wondering why this thread hasn't made sticky yet*

So all pro, I should take a week off before I cut? And you think I sho...

Yup ! Your energy levels should rebound, and any sore joints should st...

So are you saying that I should military press? I'm just afraid that m...

military presses work your upper chest to an extent whether flat be...

so you think I should drop the incline press for military press aswell...

You know there will come a time when you can't add weight every week r...

I know.

Keep pushing until your lifts start too stall then reset.

Bump

Today was my first day of week 5, so I was ready to set PRs.

Deweighting the rows makes it more or less a different exercise than n...

Well, I think I started out totally wrong with my 5x5 routine.

Can constant breaks make it harder to keep adding weight? I'm sick rig...

there is nothing more important in a weight training program than cons...

Yea.

Oh ok, so I shouldnt really worry about it then? Because I am afraid t...

the reason you start below your max set of 5x5 and spend a few weeks g...

i just want to update everyone on my progress so far on the 5x5 progra...

glad to see you're progressing along nicely!

Evening, I'm at week two in the programme and so far I'm enjoying the...

ok finished my workout today and got 170 on the bench press and 150 on...

aside from causing all life on the planet to cease, there should be no...

bump So when I begin to cut.

yup.

for my "cut" I just planned on adding low intensity cardio t...

when you gonna do your cardio?

I was gonna start in april/may and I was going to do them on off days.

what time of day? this is in regadrs to the carb intake thing.

i was going to be doing them around the same times i lift on lifting d...

yeah, if you make sure you don't eat anything the 3 hours before, you ...

how should i be eating though.

what i do when my bench press have fail this week but my other lift di...

Other lifts continue as normal.

I am on the 5x5 i missed a day yesterday (monday) should i go to the ...

so after after that my I recalculate my bench by multiplying it by .

It does seem much, and is a big blow.

this sucks.

It seems like everyone has abandoned this thread.

Don't change anything that far in.

I am in the middle of a bulking phase and have made some good gains.

i'm sorry I cant be of help, but when you say good gains.

Both.

Hey Madcow, looks like you have PMs turned off so I figured this would...

Hi guys This may seem a bit of a stupid question , but can someone ...

I'm in 5th week, and started whith the maxes(Kg): squat - 96 deadlif...

If someone helped you with the reps you can't count them, you can try ...

http://www.

actualy I overestimated deadlift because I was used to do it without d...

Are those weights in lbs.

kilos, as I said "maxes(Kg)" weight: 65Kg height: 1,70m ...

Week 1 128 = 20% less than current max Week 2 144 = 10% less than cur...

Sorry, can't read

When would be a good time to throw in some dumbell bench press? I'm th...

Don't add/change/remove anything until you have run through the progra...

Have done that and reset my weights back a couple of weeks.

I know squats are a corner stone and one of the big three but having p...

Bump for major updates on madcows site: http://www.

update.

This has probably already been repeated but I saw nowhere on Madcow's ...

Hey, wait a minute, it looks like he's saying goodbye !

I know, I was kind of sad, but I understand - like he said all he woul...

Certainly looks like it.

A simple question: Can you add side laterals on wedesdays to hit y...

You can replace incline bench, for military (to hit your side delts).

Bam

on the starting stregnth program this one: Workout A 3x5 Squat ...

Go heavy all three days, a beginner should be able to add weight to th...

well I have been sqauting for about 4 months but only going ass to gra...

You're very close to not being a newB any more.

k so i've been doing the SF 5x5 with sprints on two of three weights d...

Bump

I'm on week 7 and I've already hit some big PR's with this program.

How do you handle one body part getting out in front of another? I cha...

Squats and deadlifts allways gain the fastest, and for me benchpress a...

On rows, which is better=b/b or 1 arm d/b?

1 arm DB rows arent an options

we have strength testing for the football team on monday and tuesday.

Where's Madcow disappeared to anyway?

http://www.

/tear Gonna miss him but I can see how saying all the same stuff ov...

I'm gonna miss him too, Madcow, Defiant, Dom and I have fought some wa...

Before I found a post of madcow I knew nothing about this kind of trai...

The ramping is the warmup: set 1 35% of target set 2 70% of target ...

Thanks all pro, that's what I thougth, I just needed some confirmation

anyone?

The last time you asked this question I said skip your workout.

I made this list in an attempt to put the 5x5 programs into some kind ...

Oh well its not monday and tuesday, its monday or tuesday.

I would test Monday and skip Monday's 5x5.

ok i'm not an advanced lifter by anymeans.

need to post some more info malo.

cycle means the way madcow had it in the excel download (9-10 weeks) ...

How long does it take y'all to finish your routine doing the 5x5.

Whoa, 2500-3000 cals.

Mondays I need about 1 hour and 15, Wednesdays about the same, Fridays...

145 pounds 217 grams of protein 868 calories 217 grams of ...

i don't care about mass.

Did you gain weight, loose weight, or stay the same ? I'm just trying ...

i gained a like 2lbs

before you giveup try this: Bill Starr Beginner 5x5 Monday – Heavy D...

Yeah that's deff.

thats basicaly the routine i've been doing for the past few months (th...

All pro, isn't this the workout Short One's doing

This was the first one he did.

This one is very similar to the one I was doing, and the one I'm curre...

i have about 4 weeks left in the cycle and the majority of lifts have ...

What week are you currently on? Saying that there is 4 weeks left in t...

I must be doing something wrong because I'm out of the gym in less tha...

Hey all.

It sounds like you started the weights way too high.

Yeah, I definitely started my squat too high.

i already resseted after my first cycle because my lifts have all stal...

Well, the weights shouldn't feel to heavy for the first couple weeks.

I'd say that's actually not true, at least it wasn't for me.

On the second day of the workout it says to do incline or military pre...

Use a bar and do them standing.

Dumbells would have the same increases in weights as barbells??

No.

True, I guess i'll have to use the bar then.

I'm taking 90+ minutes to finish a workout too.

Canadian is right.

Sounds like you need a change in parameters.

I've been running the SF 5X5 for about 3 months now.

You must not be doing the 5x5 the way it is set up because there is no...

Dude, what are you talking about? Mine regularly take 90 minutes, give...

Yea 90 is about average.

Holdddd up.

There are many versions of the 5x5 by Bill Starr, Glenn Pendly and Mar...

In starr's 5X5 linear program it says to do barbell rows, can you use ...

You absolutely cannot use a machine.

should i stick with the barbell rows then or change to bent over bb ro...

bent over barbell rows

Bent over barbell rows are barbell rows.

Is it considered ok to skip a squat day every now and then? I am no...

Stopping at parallel is harder on your knees than full range of motion...

I've been thinking about getting that book.

There is no stress on the knee in a properly executed full range of mo...

What about pain in lower back?

ok guys finished the 9 week program last week and will be restarting i...

**** "This is not a 9 week program (I think some people have d...

After you guys said that my squat form must be off I decided to check ...

Yesterday was my last day of the 9-week dual-factor (accumulation/inte...

I hope you know this doesnt make any sense.

It makes a lot of sense - to me.

I have been lurking here for some time.

i would think that you should do a strength based program while cuttin...

I found it helps to put a 1" board underneath my heels.

I just finished my 9th week on the 5x5, and have run into 2 problems.

That is a bummer.

Question, what are you rowing with? You're doing Rendlay Rows, right? ...

The purpose of putting plates or a board under the heels is to help in...

I don't doubt the extent of your injury but are you absolutely sure it...

Wider grip targets more of the inner bicep, and vice-versa according t...

Are these called anything special? If I have been doing the shoulder w...

See my post above man.

i agree with Liquidtension 100%.

How do I work them in? Right now doing the program leaves me with a l...

I definitely want to fix this.

Well, first of all, I wouldn't worry about it if you are still progres...

Hey, I started the 5x5 2 weeks ago and was wondering, is it ok to do s...

I would definately go back and start squatting full depth.

I have had therapy and at one point surgery that the Dr used a machine...

When you say reset the weights, you just mean doing the weights you di...

So should I reset on my row too?

You know, you will have a lot less form problems if you switch to a Pe...

3-4 weeks, yeah.

Is this the Pendlay Row? http://www.

Nope.

It depends on if the weight ends up on the floor there or not.

hey boys and girls.

1) "When you eventually stall on the majority of lifts, and you ...

Quick question.

empty post

Since I don't have access to microplates, is it ok to add a single 2.

I will be missing my mid week workout day today on the 5x5 cause I am ...

OK, I went to home depot and got some chain links and the spring clips...

I have a question about resetting.

The difference in the options will only vary slightly.

I'm in week 4 of my 5x5 program and need your advice.

I found a good article on the Power Clean, for those of you who are us...

is there a replacement exercise for the pendlay rows? for some reason,...

Hey, all.

I think you changed the program in detrimental ways and are therefore ...

You can do power cleans if you know how to work em.

Just introducing myself, howdy, and saying to all, THANKS for all the ...

There is squating 2 days per weeek in this program, so would it be ok ...

Damn.

Yes, go back 4 weeks for the lifts that have failed and work your way ...

I'd say it all depends on the kind of running you are doing although i...

regarding the beginner 5x5 versions.

Having read this thread as it grew from it's first page, I believe the...

yep im aware most people in this thread have done the inter/novice ver...

Hey shortie.

Does Bills Intermediate 5 x 5 build cause sacromere hypertrophy, or sa...

It depends on your diet.

If someone was cutting, and their main focus was gaining strength, you...

"Also if someone were cutting, should they cut out the accesesory...

well i figured the added volume would just make it harder to recover s...

The one thing im worried about for this workout, is getting in the PR'...

i think the first couple were hard, then after that you get into a gro...

ok thanks.

It's not 5 lbs a week but 2.

just a quick question to you, as it seems you havnt had much trouble w...

Quit worrying so much and start lifting.

what are the best days to do running and biking with this program.

Run/bike on non lifting days.

I just completed week 1 of the program and I ran 3x this past week, wi...

umm.

The difference is that some people may be able to make faster progress...

ok im sorry for all the questions, but i just want to understand this.

Interefering with core lifting meaning beating yourself up too much wi...

The overall volume of work is lower in Rippetoe's Starting Strength.

Well hers my journal to show some results over the past, and a summery...

The book is recommended not for the routine but for learning the lifts...

Well I dont know.

really.

I didnt really use Rippetoes.

Stalker asked what the difference is between the schemes, so I answere...

Hello.

I need a little help guys, I did deads today and my program was set up...

You should not have done that.

Sounds awesome and what a great opportunity to work out with your son,...

When I do my incline bench, I use the standard incline that is at most...

http://forum.

Simple solution.

Ok, part of the reason why I jumped up was because when I first starte...

If you feel the deads are much "easier" than your other lift...

Sounds like a plan, thanks for the advice.

Hows this for a running Schedual on Bills intermediate 5 x 5 Sunday...

Hi all, I have never bothered you 5 x 5 people, like you come and b...

This is beside the fact that a lot of this stuff has already been disc...

Hi All, I have just completed my first 5x5 using the intermediate r...

EDIT - just saw liquid's response, so I tried to remove some stuff tha...

nothing wrong with adding in chinups/pullups to the equation.

As sore as my back gets just running the 'big three' I don't think bac...

Have a nice day.

on the lighteer weights, is it ok to try to train explosivly (DE).

you should always be trying to lift the weight explosively

hey, this was probably mentioned a long time back, but is it okay to r...

Thanks for the response All_Pro.

Drop the Friday curls and do some chinups on Wed.

Ok, so always lift explosivly-just want to clarify to make sure were t...

The majority of the time I only use the "big 3", twice per w...

i just did soem chins today and i didn't get the # of reps i wanted.

Use straps if your grip would be the limiting factor.

hey all pro would you recommend your version of the 5x5 or Madcows var...

Cool - that looks like a good routine.

Well if I'm useing what I posted and it's giving me the best results.

BAM.

as long as i keep to this schedual i wont lose the endurence i have ri...

suscribe

is i tok to do like 15 min of jumprope on heavy squat day? or like a 2...

does anyone think that doing pushups on lift days will keep my enduren...

sorry to be posting so much.

Can Power Cleans be exchanged for sets of pullups on Workout A? Stupid...

well.

1) I was told I should start doing the pendelay row.

It won't be the same.

get this back on the first page

I have two questions about Madcow2's 5x5 routine.

In The Strongest Shall Survive, one of the variations that Bill Starr ...

Yes, I suppose I can do that.

Alright thanks.

I would read that quote that you posted again

any comments on the pendaley row for tall people? see my post above.

Canadian Iron, do you even understand what I'm asking.

They are bent over rows.

When you are trying to Hit your PR's, or you are just strugling with t...

no comprende amigo.

look at the first two pics.

I'm 6'4" also ukbsktball so I too am having a hard time with this...

I am thinking if you have ur knees slightly bent, and bend over like d...

Do you mean arch your back? I thought there was nothing wrong with ar...

You should always try to use good form.

well what exactly is considered good form? I know for sure that I dont...

yes sorry, i meant arching

So you lift 50% of your 1RM the same exactly way as you lift 90% of yo...

Everybody's form breaks down as they approach their 1RM - it's a simpl...

I agree, thats what I was trying to say.

this is probably a very lame question when it says rows, what kind row...

You can use those kind of rows.

This has been answered in the previous page.

srry man didnt see it thnx for the reply ravens, but i was wondering ...

Actually pictures of the exercise can also be found on the previous pa...

Madcow lives!!!

Yeowch.

I got a quick question, I know it says not to **** with the program bu...

So wouldnt this 5x5 program be over training? Even if its light weight...

No, you won't get sore because you're not going to failure(most of the...

So is arching your back on bench press good or bad? and why

I dont understand this.

As for incline?.

There is no mention of the Power Shrugs in madcows Intermediate progra...

either do two triples for powercleans or do bent over rows for your ba...

I wouldn't consider going over 5 reps for cleans.

Anybody have a link or a copy of the spreadsheet that you can use to p...

Here you go

Any idea why this keeps saying it is an unrecognizeable format? Who k...

Bench Form-i did read the post on Madcows site and looked over BB.

Hi Ive recently Just started then program.

when you get to week 4 and beyond.

In my fourth week and already having trouble with bench.

You should be doing the same weight as your test weight in week 4.

YEs!!!i i dont know how.

Are you cutting or losing body weight? Also are you also having troubl...

So would something like this 5x5 be mainly for strength gains? Or more...

Just fix your form issues if you can and continue the progression.

Strength and mass gains

Read: http://forum.

What type of form/technique should you concentrate on using when train...

Can anybody tell me what exactly are weighted hypers? Never heard of ...

http://www.

No pause is needed.

I am beginning the 5x5 and I put my values into the spreadsheet that t...

Run it as designed if you want to get everything out of it.

squat example: 255lbs = 189 for the monday of the first week= 66lb di...

advanced or intermediate? The numbers I put in were for the advanced

With your numbers, you should be on the intermediate.

Why are you saying that? Is it because of the lower numbers better sui...

The advanced program is for when you can no longer add weight to the b...

Oh ya I assumed intermediate because a 255 lbs squat does not qualify ...

Basically, overtraining happens faster with higher weights, so whateve...

I read the intermediate and it sounds like a better program for me at ...

In the description it says "I will clarify the point that this is...

You run it as long as possible.

can somebody post their diet?????????

Here's a post with my diet.

What do you guys do on Wednesdays, standing shoulder press, or incline...

Here's my opinion on Standing presses vs Incline bench: http://forum.

I do military since my chest is already hit twice a week, so I thought...

Thanks CI.

Yes I would say it is a good program to give you PH like gains natural...

In the intermediate, what accessory lifts can you add?

Question to all 5x5 gurus.

Im playing around with the intermediate excel spreadsheet and I have a...

Also whats tonnage? And why is set interval 12.

Do kethnaab's version of the Rippetoe program then, it is better suite...

Thanks CanadianIron- the reason i asked is because thats hwo they do i...

Yes and Yes.

nothing wrong with subbing in a high rep set for each of the 3 days.

Wait.

i wouldn't do 6 sets.

20 rep set.

I listed 20 reps because that is a good weight to "shoot for"...

Does anyone have multiple articles on how to properly bench press.

Where is the log people are talking about for the 5 x 5.

Your feet should be in the same position as your squat stance (approxi...

http://www.

I checked the "post your pictures" section of this forum and...

Doesnt Incline benhc work the shoulders less than military press's? ...

Just search for 5x5 in the workout journal forum and you'll find many ...

Yes incline is good for shoulders too.

Is it Normal Not to feel sore the day after mondays workouts?

Week #5.

3x3? You realize this is the 5x5 thread right?

On the advanced there is a 3X3 section in the Intensity Phase.

I think so.

I did seated military press without a back support.

I checked the links for micro plates but the only ones I found were on...

I dont have microplates in my gym, should I round the weight up or dow...

just a suggestion.

What angle should the incline bench be done on.

So dont worry about overtraining the chest.

Choose the militarys, Starr explained that these changes where made to...

Is it ok to start a new week 2 days after the 3rd workout of the previ...

Hmm, I'm honestly thinking that I shouldn't have done the advanced.

So by not doing the militaries, you risk undertraining your shoulders?

I am starting this program tomorow in a similar fashion to needsize's ...

No you got it backwards, inclines and militarys put LESS stress on you...

Has anyone not been able to keep up to the increase of weight every we...

It's a goal.

???????

That's not the 5x5 we're talking about, thats a split program.

In the linear 5x5 how can you get your calves or shoulders worked? I ...

Calves get worked with squats, dead lifts and power cleans.

im on about my 14 week and it doesnt seem that my calves have grown at...

All right try this, on Friday try 2x15 for calve presses.

No, I'm not asking to substitute anything or change sets/reps or add m...

what is your deadlift at right now? How is it progressing? if the ...

Tonight I'll be deadlifting 215 for the top set.

Just make the weekly increases slightly bigger for your squats, there ...

Ok.

just a quick question about what to do when i cant set any more person...

Yes, and you don't have to wait for other lifts to stall.

I like this scheme for resetting weights -- haven't seen it formally l...

yeah, thanks for the help fellas.

I don't think there's anything stopping you from just plugging in the ...

unfortunatley i dont think it works like that, as it is designed to ca...

just looked at my post and realised im talking complete rubbish.

Example top set at 300 pounds current rep max.

I just thought I would include this, it's a 16 week intensity cycle fo...

its it better to do it like that with percentages or to just set it ba...

Greetings, I'm currently doing military press instead of incline on we...

PERCENTAGE.

The short answer NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !

Ok great program I love the idea heavy ass weights that is bad ass.

If you're going to go with the school of thought that 8-12 is for hype...

I am thinking about starting this program.

Chad Waterbury's 10x3 program has proven that if volume is hi enough ...

Have you got a link to any specific Waterbury programs?

Great stuff on those post very informative cleard some stuff up, thank...

ive come across a problem when i entered my 5rms into the spreadsheet.

Just follow it, as long as the heaviest set increases each week that i...

is there any way to tell if your arms are not close enough to your sid...

is that how the spreadsheet found on Madcow's site is set up?

Yes, it's go up by percent.

It's in most of the variations of 'STARR'S' 5x5s except the beginners ...

http://www.

but the way its setup is different than how you set it up.

Why dont you just follow the normal 5x5 program?

What can you do on a Monday instead of Weighted Hypers!?

have i got my ramping wrong? is this frequency to much? (values in k...

Well, just finished my first week of 5 x 5 and thought I'd give a litt...

i found out my 5rms today and am going to start the programme next mon...

A week won't make much different in strength levels.

Due to circumstances beyond my control, (Graduation!), I can't workout...

for the intermediate program, can the incline bench numbers stand in p...

Can you lift the same amount on both? If so, then yes you could subst...

I would have done Monday's workout yesterday, wednesdays on tuesday, a...

The actual numbers themselves, probably not.

Just do Friday's workout on Saturday, it won't kill you.

I workout at my school gym.

im working out at home and when i get back from my injury im starting ...

Im on my fourth week of the 5 x 5, and it was supposed to be my first ...

week 4 should be were you lift your current 5RMs.

why is this on page 4.

Well, ive allready managed to fail at my first PR.

I usually just redo the weights for that week.

this is where you reset the weights back(just for the lift that stalle...

So to reset would I put 245 in as my 5 rm and start off with what the ...

I'd suggest resetting the weight for bench as well.

Reset bench back a few weeks.

ok i will give that a try.

Reset already.

Please post what your 5 rep max was and what you've done week to week ...

5 rep max was 160x5 Week one for bench 95x5 105x5 120x5 135x5 ...

well thats wrong.

do any of you guys do 5x5 (intermediate) with chinups/pull ups added i...

I used to do narrow grip chinups (4x5) after deadlift on wednesday.

If your read madcow's site he says it's ok to add them in on wednesday...

I do them on Wednesday's workout.

I've a question.

i printed off every article from his site and read them, although that...

O.

i'm an advocate of adding a few sets of chinups and/or dips to almost ...

Will i lose any strength when im on the 5x5? ANd i play football so i...

if you have run the dual factor 5x5 a few times is it a good idea to d...

what are those sets of ten? arent you only supposed to do eight reps ...

those are sets of 5, only the last set(the 6th set) is a set of 10

what are those sets of ten? arent you only supposed to do eight reps ...

i just answered your question.

sorry for the double post.

well all pro uses a variation of the 5x5 which has this added set of 1...

If your at a point were your lifts are not too heavy then start back o...

With so many versions of this program there is lots of confusion.

why should one stop? Hey all pro(i know you're probably getting sic...

I use a 10% spread unless the first set is going to be more than 125, ...

Im not sure if this question has been asked yet, but will the madcow 5...

It's been asked many times and the answer is yes it covers the entire ...

o really.

yes are u saying stop those excercises just to that one person or what...

The isolation work is OPTIONAL, and I've lost track of the number of p...

ok ill take them out for now.

I like your aggressive ways.

When I do dips, it seems to be a little rough on my shoulders.

The reason I limit the first set to 125 is injury prevention.

yeah I figure if I do too much heavy work, I'll be too tired for the t...

I have been searching but cannot find out why Bill Starr chose the per...

on my spreadsheet ive noticed that im increasing weight for all my lif...

If this is your first time thru the program you will probably find tha...

yeah its gonna be my first time through the programme im starting on m...

Use the beginner weight increases the first time thru and see how it g...

cheers allpro.

Dips is not an isolation movement but compound, I do it instead of the...

If your doing 5x5 subbing dips for BB bench isn't a good idea, I doubt...

Im not doing the 5x5, but checking out this topic I saw somebody menti...

I sub in close grip bench for dips.

i have been doing the 5X5 and it seems that my first 3 sets are too li...

If your subbing CGB in you should take out tri extensions not dips.

how much weight are you spreading each set by?

well i started with this program and it has been a week now, i wanted ...

I know dips are'nt an isolation.

bump to one of the best programs.

Hey all pro, I just realized that with the example I gave, If you add ...

I want to give this program a shot.

Well have you lifted weights before? If you answered yes, what rep ran...

If you can push more total weight and still get that top set, GO FOR I...

I guess it all depends on alot of stuff.

The first set is only a warmup.

I usually warmup with the bar for the first two exercises(squats and b...

Yeah, the thing is I've been lifting for about 2 months now, and since...

if you are pretty much a raw beginner you should check out Mark Rippet...

Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to see.

You said you did 150lbs on bench without the bar.

Alright, thanks a lot man.

That should work so long as you feel loose.

I calculated the volume for each and here are the results.

Try it my way for 1 week, if it's too much go with yours.

What is the point of resetting the weight.

It's a form of deloading.

So why is it that when you sue bad form, you can get the weight up, bu...

you'll get to a point where you can add weight anymore.

Ahhh man, now you tell me that more volume will help me cut.

can someone teach me exactly how to find out my maxes, should i find t...

I have been having some trouble on the squat.

Do i increase my lightest ramped rep when i progress my heaviest, or d...

ive always thought you just try to keep the weight jumps fairly consta...

So when you are benching, going for PR's, you should not let your elbo...

The Stronget Shall Survive does not out line ANY advanced tehchniques.

For the begginer program, are you supposed to go for PR's on every wor...

Are rows alone enough for the entire back? How do I know how much weig...

I suppose the simplest answer is yes, you increase your ramped weight.

For the begginer program, are squats supposed to be done 3 times per w...

A few things.

Unless you're talking about Rippetoe's program, then it's different ag...

yes sorry, im talking about the begginer one from ripptoe.

Im starting the intermediate 5x5 which has 3 workouts a week, monday, ...

No you absolutely cannot do this, it will bury you.

Is it allright to take out wendsdays squats if you are doing the beggi...

when you are saying beginner 5x5, which are you refering to?

AFAIK there's no beginner 5x5, only intermediate and advanced.

No.

Wednesday is the *perfect* day in the 5x5 to work on the form for your...

The beginner's 5x5 http://www.

Oh ok, I didn't know that.

Hey all pro, I sent you a PM and then saw this thread again so I guess...

Just finish up the week.

If you fail, you first try again next week.

That's a good description of it.

I am replacing the BB rows on monday and friday with cleans.

I'd been putting a few webpages together to explain all this, but from...

Hey, im about to start my first 5X5 on monday.

Awesome, exactly what I was looking for.

Riptoe's starting strength Starr's beginner's 5x5 Same as above exce...

http://forum.

That's a great place to start.

So one should start with Rippetoes and then head over to Starrs? Anyth...

Run Riptoe's until you can't add weight every workout and rest the wei...

Ok, once I improve my flexibility I'll start with Rippetoe (even thoug...

Riptoe's will give you a basic feel for this stuff and if it's the wro...

All Pro, I sent you another PM.

so its a bad idea to take the squtas on wed.

Pendly set this routine up.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to all p...

It's the thought that counts.

To everyone that has Pmd me about a list of the 5x5s in order, I'm goi...

In the 5x5 program it says to do Squat, Bench, and Row on monday.

A bentover barbell row or a Pendly row.

I'm not disagreeing, but how come I see 5x5 recommended to everyone wa...

empty post

Right, Rippetoe's program is the one that is most commonly and SHOULD ...

i am planning on starting 5x5 ASAP.

You don't have to make it a regular work out.

bad can i do a regular workout along with it? i would be bored going t...

Sure.

okay sounds good.

I prefer the militarys.

Go with the standing military press, highly recommended by most everyo...

okay sounds good.

Core stability will improve more if you do them standing.

Core stability like all pro said.

yeah that is what i figured the reason would be.

Of course this happens.

Qusetion about Barbell Rows? Is it ok to do a T-Bar Row in place of Ba...

The Bill Starr 5x5 program is recommended for intermediate.

How long have you been back lifting consistantly ?

I'm in week 3 of advncd 5x5 and hitting current pr's, and week 4 is to...

I haven't been consistently lifting for a couple years but I still hav...

I would make a run with the beginners program because the gains come f...

The "Rippetoe program" will get you back up to your old leve...

thank you for both your help.

All Pro I went through and edited the email you had sent to me and mad...

I was thinking about doing the Beginners Program(Rippetoes program) bu...

Ok, is it allright o train for aerobic and anerobic endurence while tr...

bump I need to know if i can run to much on this program, and then ...

I replied to you in a different thread.

Read the second post down on this page by Kethnaab.

ok thanks alot.

You cannot skip any of the core lifts especially the squats.

ok, what about instead of skipping it, you make it like a light day, a...

No, there is a light medium and heavy day already in this program.

Hey canadian iron, do you think if a beginner used Bill Starr's 5x5, t...

Yes i am talking about ripptoes begginer program (sorry for not specif...

http://www.

On putting more weight on every workout.

thanks alot.

The first link compared the intermediate 5x5 to the advanced 5x5 and t...

c'mon, screw running.

I'm in week 4 day one of 5x5 advanced I was supposed to bench 250x5...

bump.

Ive read the 5x5 thing multiple times and still don't understand it.

Bring it down to 245.

ty

agree.

on week 5 advanced program(deload) as the squats get harder, do I h...

The order of the exercises does matter, they are specified to do them ...

thanx canadian.

-Squats serve as a warmup for the entire body -It's best to avoid doi...

thanx Iron! I guess I've already repped ya recently and can't right no...

I have a couple of questions: I am going to restart the 5x5 program...

i do light RDLs inplace of hypers on the program, so I'm sure you coul...

Hey guys.

bump.

Repeat the last week before you left.

http://www.

That's interesting to me because I also consider myself in the "l...

What about resetting the weights? When this happens, are you able to k...

I got a week of football practises in august and then in september we ...

i've read a shitload in this thread, but not enough as of yet.

dips and military press are in the intermediate 5x5

ohh, i was looking at the excel file and it says incline but not milit...

You might be.

Wow, no kidding.

I started conservatively and have taken conservative jumps.

Has anyone gone onto friday, and had a very hard time getting your 3 R...

I see a lot of people confused with issues regarding when to use a var...

Madcow, you just dropped a bomb.

Ive been trying Bill Stars Intermediate 5 x 5 (pyramiding weights) for...

I'm on week 7 of the program and I love it.

Next run you could put snatches in place of rows if you like.

Ah, my bad, I should've mentioned I already replaced rows w/ power cle...

if you think you can make better gains with a highter rep range ont eh...

the reason i ask, is because ive been having trouble adding weight for...

While doing this program, should you lift all the weights explosivly? ...

no one likes this thread anymore ??? : ) bump

If you read the Usage section under my link http://www.

Could it really be? Is the cow back for good???

bump

HEY MADCOW- QUESTION.

If you bench 135 you are not intermediate.

im in week 6 of my 1st cycle and have probably only got a few weeks of...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

ok.

You only reset the lifts that stall.

oh thats fine then.

If you're happy with the program, then just run it until resetting sto...

hey I dont know if this has been covered or not- I dont have time to r...

Answer is here: http://www.

well what about increases in deadlift weight? when are you supposed...

Just use the excel template provided.

I have everything explained to me now so thank you I cant look at t...

Do you mean Riptoe's then move on to the 5x5???

That's what he means.

That sounds like a confirmation to me; guess I'll have to give it a go...

I've always heard you should change workout - reps and type of excerci...

That's dogma/misinformation spread by people who don't know how to pro...

I have a concern about the 5x5: On week 1 on Friday's workout, I ki...

Don't even worry about it, just follow it precisely from now on.

I know this has been touched on before but I wanted to give a quick op...

I dunno if this has been asked before, but 1300+ posts is kinda much t...

The simplest way to set it up is divide by 5.

You aren't always going to keep the 135, 185, and-so-on progression fo...

All right, I think I'm starting to get it.

Actually after reading Madcow's site again, you ramp approximately 10-...

On a side-note for Madcow and/or others, due to a recent knee injury t...

I love 5x5.

Ahhh, all right, I understand now.

For the people that have been using this program for a long time, how ...

This is one of those things where different exercises affect people di...

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